Curse

Kerwyn Nasilan · Jul 02, 2009, 06:10 PM // 18:10

I have been doing the ZQuests recently and when it is in EotN, Factions, or Nightfall I find intelligent groups that realize a tank is a waste of damage capability and all you need is a competent monk and Protective Spirit. But whenever the quest is in Prophecies everyone seems to revolve around the idea that you need a tank. And that thats all a warrior can do. While eles are damage in HM. (Fire nukers in Hells Precipice lolwut?). I swear it is like 2006-2007 all over again. Anyone know why this is 0_o?

Anonymage · Jul 02, 2009, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Maybe a lot of the people doing the Prophecies Z-Quests only have Prophecies so they're still stuck in that mind set.

Zodiac Meteor · Jul 02, 2009, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerwyn Nasilan

I have been doing the ZQuests recently and when it is in EotN, Factions, or Nightfall I find intelligent groups that realize a tank is a waste of damage capability.

I monk a lot, and every good monk HATES to have a destroy of bones wailing on them with KD chain. I'd take 3 tanks over 3 casters any day.

Abedeus · Jul 02, 2009, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

I monk a lot, and every good monk HATES to have a destroy of bones wailing on them with KD chain. I'd take 3 tanks over 3 casters any day.

You have confused tanks with frontliners.

Frontliners hold aggro and destroy enemies.

Tanks stand still and do HURR HURR I TAKE NO DMG HURR DON'T HELP WITH KILLING DDDDZZ!

Kerwyn Nasilan · Jul 02, 2009, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

I monk a lot, and every good monk HATES to have a destroy of bones wailing on them with KD chain. I'd take 3 tanks over 3 casters any day.

The melee still should be holding aggro, its just that you don't dedicate your bar to being hard to kill.

Gift3d · Jul 02, 2009, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

You have confused tanks with frontliners.

Frontliners hold aggro and destroy enemies.

Tanks stand still and do HURR HURR I TAKE NO DMG HURR DON'T HELP WITH KILLING DDDDZZ!

THIS.

but then again if you just bring 2 minion masters there's 20 little exploding tanks right there

Abedeus · Jul 02, 2009, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gift3d

THIS.

but then again if you just bring 2 minion masters there's 20 little exploding tanks right there

Holy damage/AoE/undead or otherwise lack of corpses makes your MMs useless.

People do that with Spirits now. Place 4-5 spirits to tank, 2-3 defensive spirits and heal while dealing damage.

Or take a Perma-SF and ask him to bring an offensive Scythe or Dagger variant.

Quaker · Jul 02, 2009, 06:44 PM // 18:44

This is like arguing with my wife - I sincerly doubt that everyone doing Z quests in prophecies wants to use a tank. Some of them would have to be the same people who quest in other areas.

Personally, I've encountered groups (PUGS) in all areas that want to tank. I've also noticed that some people will crap on Warrior tanks, but will go gaga over perma tanks.

Bottom line - whatever floats yer boat.

Coraline Jones · Jul 02, 2009, 07:21 PM // 19:21

I'm with the OP where I don't understand why people need tanks for the regular part of the game. Even if you get a so-called tank, most of the time they are worthless in your typical PUG because of the crap aggro system. What will happen is that the tank will rush in and start hitting things, but only bodyblocks one target. The nukers or miscellaneous support will typically be too close behind and the monsters then spread out and hit the so-called "squishy" targets anyway.

I suspect that the reason why people want a "tank" is due to the brilliant gimmick builds that have filled the game and often center around a SF assassin, a 600 smite monk, or (rarely) a terra tank.

Bob Slydell · Jul 02, 2009, 07:33 PM // 19:33

IMO there is NO such thing as a tank in this game, that is a stupid word. Guildwars LACKS a hate system, therefore anyone could become the target of an angry mob....

Artisan Archer · Jul 02, 2009, 07:55 PM // 19:55

so, you ran into 2 PUGS that wanted a tank instead of you; another (female?) ele.

r u mad nou?

Gift3d · Jul 02, 2009, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Holy damage/AoE/undead or otherwise lack of corpses makes your MMs useless.

People do that with Spirits now. Place 4-5 spirits to tank, 2-3 defensive spirits and heal while dealing damage.

Or take a Perma-SF and ask him to bring an offensive Scythe or Dagger variant.

yeah there's like 2-3 places in guild wars where minions aren't effective.

15+ minions dying to aoe/holy damage/whateverelseyoucanthinkof = 15 death novas popping. HOW USELESS.

Gennadios · Jul 02, 2009, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Honestly, I think it's because Proph is the easiest campaign to finish and unlock HM in.

If you're running a HM Zmish in any of the other campaigns, the people that have the HM status to join you likely know what they're doing.

I've puged /w some hardcore ineptitude in proph, and they're nowhere to be found in Fac/NF/EotN(to a lesser extent) and that's my theory.

Helix Dreadlock · Jul 02, 2009, 08:47 PM // 20:47

People hate change.

nuf said

Owik Gall · Jul 02, 2009, 09:24 PM // 21:24

The sad truth about tanking NPC mobs is their aggro system will totally ignore the tank, much like human players do. That's one of the aspects that is shared in PvE and PvP fighting. Monsters ignores the tank and goes for the weaker targets only to get back at the tank once they've killed everyone else, which is like how human players react in PvP. It's aggravatingly annoying. It's better off if the warrior that was tanking make a dedicated Save Yourselves! build if the goal is to support the team in some way. Party wide damage reduction is a better choice than trying to hold aggro as a tank and it's a lot more effective. Not to say that it's a good build overall, but better compared to tanking. The current aggro system is an unfortunate leap from the good old days, but at least it's tolerable.

Kerwyn Nasilan · Jul 02, 2009, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artisan Archer

so, you ran into 2 PUGS that wanted a tank instead of you; another (female?) ele.

r u mad nou?

No, I am a warrior, that runs a damaging build (BLASPHEMY!) that can hold aggro as well as a tank while killing things.

Trylo · Jul 02, 2009, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisworld

IMO there is NO such thing as a tank in this game, that is a stupid word. Guildwars LACKS a hate system, therefore anyone could become the target of an angry mob....

false. they attack the thing with the least armor, and then the target with the least health.

hence why i run minors and survivors and a shield set in pve: nothing attacks me.

OT:

personally, as a monk, as long as i have prot spirit and shield of abs, i really dont care who wants to aggro. the nuke could aggro for all i care. as long as the rest of the team knows how to not run into the mob thats being aggroed before they lock the tanker as the target, i dont care. unfortunately, that rarely happens because people in general kinda suck.

**Marty Silverblade** · Jul 02, 2009, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Half decent War that knows how to hold aggro + half decent Monk that knows how to prot saves the War 8 slots on his bar that he can use to blow stuff up.

Zzes Tyan · Jul 03, 2009, 01:05 AM // 01:05

you dont need a tank. pve is a joke anyway

Bryant Again · Jul 03, 2009, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisworld

IMO there is NO such thing as a tank in this game, that is a stupid word. Guildwars LACKS a hate system, therefore anyone could become the target of an angry mob....

Yeup.

The best part is when you get kicked after failing a mission because you "couldn't hold aggro".